<Mail Conversation>
Dear Mr. Mustafa Jabbar,
Please find my reply below:
Please don't change my name. You have noticed from my signature that I work in Grameen Software, you should also have noticed that my name is not Fahim.
Well, who are the members of the BSTI committee DOES matter. A verdict of a committee formed by unqualified members is of no use. Otherwise why did you mention honorable Dr. Zafar Iqbal's name in the first place? He was not the head of the committee yet you mentioned him. I mentioned him for the very same reason. However, I am happy to know that your keyboard layout went through scientific process.
You are not right in this. Not all of science are used by people, yet they have much value. There are many things in science which is not used by human for business purpose. The sole purpose of science is not to be used by people. Science is all about knowledge, be it used by people or not.
I completely failed to grasp the meaning and intent of this part. If you have meant that Grameen Software, which is one of the top software companies of Bangladesh, does not have lots of projects then you are very wrong. I do not have proper authorization to disclose business information of my company to a public forum. I can only say that we have lots of employees yet we have shortage of manpower to do all our projects. I am a proud employee of Grameen Software. However, I failed to understand that how Grameen Software is related to a mail in a public forum like bdresearchers, we were talking about Bijoy keyboard layout.
Please read my mail again to see that I did not use the word gimmick for you, I was just giving an general example.
Your unstoppable sale of Bijoy is indeed a proof of your business success. For business success you only have to care your customers not any individual, no doubt about that. I like to know that why did you mention honorable Dr. Zafar Iqbal's name if you do not care him at all?
I did not assume anything about Muneer keyboard layout. I only told that it was developed using scientific methods which is a fact.
I like to say something here which I should have said in my earlier mail. I do not understand why we should consider the fact that this layout is for a computer. We should talk about the keyboard here as the term "Keyboard Layout" also suggests. A keyboard and a typewritter has the same use, that is TYPING. I think if a layout is ok for typewriter, it is ok for a keyboard too.
I welcome your suggestion to read more on the topic. I will certainly try to do so and provide some valuable input in this regard.
Thanks,
--
Mohammad Farhan Husain
Software Engineer
Grameen Software
Grameen IT Park
Grameen Bank Tower (11th floor)
Mirpur - 2, Dhaka - 1216
Bangladesh
Email: farhan.husain@grameensoftware.com
------------------------------------------------------------
Grameen Software (http://www.grameensoftware.com )
Please find my reply below:
On 3/7/06, mjabbar@bangla.net <mjabbar@bangla.net> wrote:
Dear Mr. Fahim
Please don't change my name. You have noticed from my signature that I work in Grameen Software, you should also have noticed that my name is not Fahim.
I am surprised that you have opted for a name to give a certificate for a
keyboard like Bijoy to be scientific. You meant that as my keyboard has got a
certificate from a person like Dr. Zafar Iqbal, than it is scientific.
Otherwise not? With all the respects to Dr Zafar Iqbal, I just like to mention
here that I designed the keyboard in 1988 and the keyboard has a very strong
science relating to Bangla Script and human interface of typing. The formula I
have used in my keyboard is from the scientific nature of Bangla language and
that has made it possible to create hundreds of characters with only two layers
of QWERTY Keyboard.
Well, who are the members of the BSTI committee DOES matter. A verdict of a committee formed by unqualified members is of no use. Otherwise why did you mention honorable Dr. Zafar Iqbal's name in the first place? He was not the head of the committee yet you mentioned him. I mentioned him for the very same reason. However, I am happy to know that your keyboard layout went through scientific process.
I am also surprised that serving in a business organisation you could not
realise that that science, which is not used by the people has very little
value for the human civilisations.
You are not right in this. Not all of science are used by people, yet they have much value. There are many things in science which is not used by human for business purpose. The sole purpose of science is not to be used by people. Science is all about knowledge, be it used by people or not.
When we were in the University, we were doing lots of projects to have
marks-Perhaps Grameen Spftware can not afford to do that.
I completely failed to grasp the meaning and intent of this part. If you have meant that Grameen Software, which is one of the top software companies of Bangladesh, does not have lots of projects then you are very wrong. I do not have proper authorization to disclose business information of my company to a public forum. I can only say that we have lots of employees yet we have shortage of manpower to do all our projects. I am a proud employee of Grameen Software. However, I failed to understand that how Grameen Software is related to a mail in a public forum like bdresearchers, we were talking about Bijoy keyboard layout.
We as a business company have never adopted any gimmic ( I am sorry to hear a
nasty word like this) nor has got any patronage from anybody like you and has
been successful in getting the support of millions of people and we are happy
for that.
Please read my mail again to see that I did not use the word gimmick for you, I was just giving an general example.
In fact I do not care for anybody's certificate for my keyboard to be
scientific. In fact Dr Zafar Iqbals committe had no way but to accept Bijoy as
no one has the ability to stop Bijoy under todays circumstances.
Your unstoppable sale of Bijoy is indeed a proof of your business success. For business success you only have to care your customers not any individual, no doubt about that. I like to know that why did you mention honorable Dr. Zafar Iqbal's name if you do not care him at all?
I have also understood that your comment on Muneer Keyboard was based on
assumption and there was no scientific basis on that.
When you make a comment, I wish you will justify that with proper logic.
I did not assume anything about Muneer keyboard layout. I only told that it was developed using scientific methods which is a fact.
As I have mentioned in my previous mail. I have given my view about why I have
not accepted Muneeer as a Computer Keybaord for Bangla.
Prof Munner Choudhury was my teacher and I respect him like my father. But I
have found that a typewriter keyboard is unable to make the most scientific
keyboard for a language like Bangla.
I like to say something here which I should have said in my earlier mail. I do not understand why we should consider the fact that this layout is for a computer. We should talk about the keyboard here as the term "Keyboard Layout" also suggests. A keyboard and a typewritter has the same use, that is TYPING. I think if a layout is ok for typewriter, it is ok for a keyboard too.
I shall again request you to read more on the subject and than make a comment.
Mustafa Jabbar
I welcome your suggestion to read more on the topic. I will certainly try to do so and provide some valuable input in this regard.
Thanks,
--
Mohammad Farhan Husain
Software Engineer
Grameen Software
Grameen IT Park
Grameen Bank Tower (11th floor)
Mirpur - 2, Dhaka - 1216
Bangladesh
Email: farhan.husain@grameensoftware.com
------------------------------------------------------------
Grameen Software (http://www.grameensoftware.com )
Quoting Farhan Husain < russoue@gmail.com>:
> Well, science and business are not the same. People are not aware of
> science, it is the designer who should follow scientific methods. It may be
> a marketting gimmick which makes a product very popular, science has nothing
> to do here. The success of your product is no doubt very good but it does
> not prove that your product is scientifically superior. However, as the BSTI
> committee, of which honorable Dr. Jaraf Iqbal was a member, approved your
> layout as a scientific one than that ends the debate. However, please don't
> confuse science and business.
>
> On 3/7/06, mjabbar@bangla.net < mjabbar@bangla.net> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Dear Farhan,
> > Thanks again. For more details on Bijoy, Muneer and other keybaords,
> > please read
> > my book named Digital Bangla, published by Agamee Prokashonee. You might
> > also
> > see report of Keyboard Standardisation Committee of BCC headed by
> > Professor
> > Monsur Musa. Dr Jafar Iqbal and other scholars were in that committee and
> > I was
> > not there. The committe was formed to stope Bijoy to be the standard
> > keyboard by
> > BSTI. But the committe not only accepted Bijoy but also recognised as the
> > most
> > scientific one.
> > It is true that Muneer Keyboard was devloped on scientific considerations
> > for
> > typewriters. Please recognise that a Computer is not a typewriter and thus
> > it
> > has different science.
> > It would not be possible for Bijoy to have 97% user base without any
> > scientific
> > base. Do you think that is possible? All Bijoy user are fool?
> > We have developed it for Computer and not for typewriter. My Bijoy
> > keyboard will
> > not work on trypewriter and it has followed all the scientific rules (as
> > much as
> > that is practicable) of Bangla and thus has been so popular.
> > The Keybaord Standardisation Commiitte has expressedly said that Bijoy is
> > the
> > most widely used and scientifically designed keyboard. They have however
> > suuggested some changes to Bijoy and accepted 99.9% of Bijoy as a standard
> > keybaord.
> > How can you expect that in last eighteen years we sat idle and did not
> > even got
> > the feedback of the people and found if there is any fault in our design.
> > I should let you know a story. A company named saki Computers imported 500
> > Muneer and 5000 Bijoy Keybaords. Untill today the market has bought more
> > than a
> > million Bijioy keybaord but those 500 Muneer Keybaord could not be sold.
> > Where does your science stands?
> > Mustafa Jabbar
> >
> > Quoting Farhan Husain < russoue@gmail.com>:
> >
> > > Well, you are right that ultimately users will choose layouts for them.
> > But
> > > I was telling that Munir layout is scientifically designed. Standard
> > > scientific procedures (e.g. frequency of occurrences) were followed
> > while
> > > designing the Munir layout. I don't know whether any standard procedure
> > was
> > > followed for Bijoy or not.
> > >
> > > On 3/7/06, mjabbar@bangla.net < mjabbar@bangla.net> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > If you feel that Muneer is good for you who has stopped you to use
> > that?
> > > > Dozens
> > > > of solutions are available. Even we provide solution for Muneer. You
> > might
> > > > be
> > > > happy to know that even we have developed the Muineer Keybaord by
> > > > introducing
> > > > link with the typewriter Keybaord.
> > > > Whether it is better than Bijoy or worst is the question to be decided
> > by
> > > > the
> > > > users in general. If 97% users are wrong and you are correct, its
> > fine.
> > > > If we look at the market response probably we shall be able to find
> > the
> > > > usage
> > > > percentage of Bijoy, Muneer or any other keyboard.
> > > > As a developer of KBangla Software I firmly believe that the user is
> > the
> > > > ultimate decision maker and every user has the right to choose or even
> > > > create
> > > > his/her own keyboard. I am ready to implement your own keyboard. Even
> > you
> > > > can
> > > > do yourself.
> > > > We have kept all the options for everybody and is willing to add even
> > many
> > > > new
> > > > keyboards. But it is the users who will finally say what they will
> > use.
> > > > Keyboard is a personnal choice and do not confuse it with encoding. We
> > > > need a
> > > > standaard encoding and some organisation might create their own
> > standard
> > > > opf
> > > > keybaord.
> > > > Our govt has already decided to use a standard keybaord. They might
> > tell
> > > > you
> > > > that if you want to have a govt job, you are to use that keyboard.
> > > > But a publisher might say that you will have to know Muneer or Bijoy
> > or
> > > > lEKHONI.
> > > > oN DEMAND FROM wEST bENGAL presently we are working on Geetanjali,
> > > > Satyajit
> > > > Keybaords of their choice.
> > > > Unfortunately those who are not users of Bangla in computers creates
> > more
> > > > confusion than the users.
> > > > I do not like to go into the debate of what is good, better and best.
> > But
> > > > definitely look at the market force and still continue to develop
> > those
> > > > technologies which are liked by people.
> > > > I do not agree that we have not proceeded much in Bangla Localisation.
> > > > Probably we forget to look at the Bangla Publications in paper (recent
> > Boi
> > > > Mela
> > > > is one plece where we should look), electronic and digital media.
> > > > I wish you will be practical and respect others choice of their own.
> > > > We might have some problems in using Bangla, but it has not stopped us
> > in
> > > > doing
> > > > things in Bangla.
> > > >
> > > > Mustafa Jabbar
> > > >
> > > > Quoting Farhan Husain < russoue@gmail.com >:
> > > >
> > > > > I think, we should reach a consensus to use Munir keyboard layout as
> > it
> > > > is
> > > > > much more scientifically designed than any others, specially bijoy.
> > > > >
> > > > > On 3/6/06, mjabbar@bangla.net < mjabbar@bangla.net> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Dear All.
> > > > > > I have read the mail of Mr. Pramanik.
> > > > > > Though he has not mentioned my name in his article, even Mr.
> > Sharif
> > > > did
> > > > > > not mentioned my name too, it is clear to identify meself as the
> > > > target of
> > > > > > both the people.
> > > > > > I have replied to the article of 2000 and hope to be printed in
> > the
> > > > next
> > > > > > week's 2000.
> > > > > > Please read that for better understanding.
> > > > > > However I should say something about Mr Pramaniks view. Regarding
> > > > Muneer
> > > > > > Keybaord, he and all of you should know that I iintroduced Muneer
> > > > Keybaord
> > > > > > in 1987 in Mac and in 1993 under Windows. Even today anyone can
> > find
> > > > Muneer
> > > > > > Keyboard with Bijoy Classic Pro. I do not feel that I am dead with
> > > > Muneer
> > > > > > Keybaord.
> > > > > > In fact 97% people of Bangladesh, 80% people of West Bengal use
> > Bijoy
> > > > > > Keyboard and no one has been compelled to use anyone.
> > > > > > Every user has the option to choose between Muneeer, Bijoy, Jatioy
> > and
> > > > > > National.
> > > > > > In fact if anyone has dropped Muneer Keyboard, it is the govt who
> > have
> > > > > > never considered to keep it in evaluation.
> > > > > > I have kept Muneer as one of the option and shall continue to do
> > that.
> > > > > > Regarding his other opinion about Bijoys to be the seventh wonder-
> > I
> > > > wish
> > > > > > people will decide my contribution and its not Pramanik alone who
> > will
> > > > give
> > > > > > verdict about my position in the ICT.
> > > > > > Thanks and regards
> > > > > > Mustafa Jabbar
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Quoting "M. M Pramanik " < mmpramanik@yahoo.com>:
> > > > > > Dear All,
> > > > > > I have come through all your mails regarding dishonesty with
> > Bangla
> > > > > > keyboard and font. I can also guess that person who is dead
> > against
> > > > any
> > > > > kind
> > > > > > of keyboard except his layout. I appreciate him for his keyboard
> > but
> > > > Munir
> > > > > > key board should have been given the respect which he enjoying. In
> > > > > > Bangladesh all Typists of Type machines (which now allmost
> > obsolete)
> > > > are
> > > > > > familiar with Munir key Board and when they started to use
> > computer,
> > > > they
> > > > > > had to use another keyboard. It was not justice.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The man who is dead against Munir KB, once expressed himself as
> > the
> > > > > > father/pioneer of Computer in Bangladesh and he was also dead
> > against
> > > > all
> > > > > > academic people (BUET, BITs, DU, RU etc.) who studies Programming
> > or
> > > > basic
> > > > > > side of computing. That person advocated for multimedia education
> > but
> > > > he
> > > > > > could not realise that those academics or students were involved
> > in
> > > > > > education by which they could make his multimedia softwares. He
> > was
> > > > only
> > > > > end
> > > > > > user. He thought that his software (bangla) was the seventh wonder
> > of
> > > > the
> > > > > > world !!!!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > M. Pramanik
> > > > > > -----------------------------------------------
> > > > > > Dear Mr.rahman,
> > > > > > I agree very much with you that as Bangali,we are more emotional
> > than
> > > > > > practical(myself not an exception).Thats why we have not been able
> > to
> > > > > > progress much on Bangla localization.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Let us hope some one /group with merit come forward in the feild.
> > > > > > Regards
> > > > > >
> > > > > > MMHAQ
> > > > > >
> > > > > > *Sayeed Rahman < banglait@gmail.com>* wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > When Ekushey February comes every year we become so emotional
> > after
> > > > > > few days we forget everything. But in reality we should talk
> > about
> > > > > > how much we achieved on Bangla Localization:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Still we are confused about Standard Bangla key board layout
> > > > > > Not much work done by our Bangla Academy or Bangladesh Computer
> > > > Council
> > > > > > http://www.bccbd.org/ on this area BCC suppose to be is an
> > autonomous
> > > > body
> > > > > > under the Ministry of Science and Information & Communication
> > > > Technology,
> > > > > > Government of Bangladesh for encouraging and providing support
> > for
> > > > ICT
> > > > > > related activities in Bangladesh Recently Bangladesh Computer
> > Council
> > > > > came
> > > > > > up with Bangladesh Standard for Bengali Keyboard, Keyboard Bengali
> > > > Keyboard
> > > > > > Layout is these going to work?
> > > > > > Is this BCC truly an autonomous body? How it's Director post and
> > > > manpower
> > > > > > were selected on the basis of merit or connection?
> > > > > > Do we have any Standard Policy regarding our Govt web site design
> > > > layout?
> > > > > > How many BD Govt Web site are today in Bangla?
> > > > > > What our Private and Public Universities (CSE Dept) are doing for
> > > > Bangla
> > > > > > Localization?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hope some one will answer my questions before the Ekushey February
> > > > emotion
> > > > > > fades away!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > What's good for Bangladesh is good for BANGLA IT. Serving yours
> > need
> > > > to
> > > > > > know.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Sayeed Rahman
> > > > > > Founder BANGLA IT
> > > > > > http://www.banglait.org
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------Shaptahik
> > > > > > 2000 article on Bangla Computing
> > > > > >
> > > > > > http://www.shaptahik2000.com/shonkha/2006/20060224/pr20060224.pdf
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > > Comments on the article from Shaptahik2000 group list
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Dear All,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks for sharing with us a rather interesting yet thought
> > provoking
> > > > > > article written by Mr. Mohammad Reza Shareef in a recent issue of
> > the
> > > > > > Shaptahik on the controversy of Bangla key board layout in
> > Bangladesh.
> > > > > > The author elaborates the merits of Munir key board layout and
> > favors
> > > > > > its adoption over the others because of its ease of use and wide
> > > > spread
> > > > > > applications. The author also mentions about a class of dishonest
> > > > > > businessmen in Bangladesh especially points out throughout
> > > > > > the article about one particular dishonest who it seems is the
> > > > forefront
> > > > > > dead against the success of Munir key board and its font layout,
> > > > because he
> > > > > > himself developed and marketed one. Is it his
> > > > > > personal ego (I know the best; it is my way or high way!) or
> > > > Bangladeshi
> > > > > > corrupt politics? Those of us who live outside Bangladesh
> > > > > > and do not have any first hand knowledge of the Bangladeshi
> > politics
> > > > > > of Bangla fonts , Bangla key boards etc., it would be of very
> > interest
> > > > to
> > > > > > us to learn who is this dishonest businessman behind the dirty
> > > > Bangladeshi
> > > > > > politics of Bangla fonts and Bangla key boards. Can the author
> > > > identify
> > > > > him?
> > > > > > I have my suspicion!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Regards,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Fahim AHMED Ph.D.
> > > > > > Senior Research Scientist
> > > > > > Product Portfolio Milk Quality & Animal Health
> > > > > > DeLaval Manufacturing
> > > > > > 64153-1296 Kansas City, MO, USA
> > > > > > fahim.ahmed@delaval.com
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > [Disclaimer: BANGLA-IT Management is not liable for information
> > > > contained
> > > > > > in this message. The author takes full responsibility]
> > > > > > Post message: bangla_ict@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > Visit http://www.banglait.org for more info
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Mohammad Farhan Husain
> > > > > Software Engineer
> > > > > Grameen Software
> > > > > Grameen IT Park
> > > > > Grameen Bank Tower (11th floor)
> > > > > Mirpur - 2, Dhaka - 1216
> > > > > Bangladesh
> > > > > Email: farhan.husain@grameensoftware.com
> > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > Grameen Software ( http://www.grameensoftware.com)
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > This mail sent through bangla.net, The First Online Internet Service
> > > > Provider
> > > > in Bangladesh
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Mohammad Farhan Husain
> > > Software Engineer
> > > Grameen Software
> > > Grameen IT Park
> > > Grameen Bank Tower (11th floor)
> > > Mirpur - 2, Dhaka - 1216
> > > Bangladesh
> > > Email: farhan.husain@grameensoftware.com
> > > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > > Grameen Software ( http://www.grameensoftware.com )
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------
> > This mail sent through bangla.net , The First Online Internet Service
> > Provider
> > in Bangladesh
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Mohammad Farhan Husain
> Software Engineer
> Grameen Software
> Grameen IT Park
> Grameen Bank Tower (11th floor)
> Mirpur - 2, Dhaka - 1216
> Bangladesh
> Email: farhan.husain@grameensoftware.com
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> Grameen Software ( http://www.grameensoftware.com)
>
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